Why The HubHopper is a Risk to Creative Expression.
80As a very new Hubber, (still rubbing my eyes and looking around to see where I am), I've been taking a tour of the various places of interest here at ‘Hubland’.
Today I visited the forums, and found myself drawn to one about Hub Hopping. Turns out that Hub Hopping gives all Hubbers the opportunity, and the right, to opine and arbitrate on the worthiness, or not, of other people’s contributions
I jumped in for a look, because I'm in the process of working up my first Hub, (well, it was going to be my first, until it got gazumped by this one...), and, like everyone else who’s new here, I’m keen to learn.
While I totally agree with Down Hubbing (if that's the correct term) work that is very poorly written, riddled with grammatical and punctuation errors, search engine optimised beyond human comprehension, or plain nonsensical, I have to say I’m a little unnerved at some of the opinions I found in the thread below, about what type of work belongs on HubPages, and I’m wondering what other people may think.
If you don’t want to jump to the thread right now, I’ve explained my concerns below.
In developing my first (now second..) Hub, I'm following recommended procedure, as I understand it so far, by writing original and unique content - keyword-rich, but strictly in context, breaking up text with subheads, adding interest with photos and videos, referencing other related websites, and not overdoing tags.
As far as the written content itself is concerned, I want the end result to be intriguing, informative, engaging, somewhat challenging, and above all, entertaining.
I'd have thought that was an acceptable way to do it. Because I (naively?) believe that engaging, easy-to-read content must matter more than anything else. That is, content assessed by human beings. To me, when Google becomes the unchallenged arbiter of quality content as well as the 'determiner' of the piece's fate, as measured by SEO metrics, we may as well give individual expression away.
That said, HubPages certainly appears to have a significant volume of SEO-driven ‘articles’ that are pure gibberish when measured by their ability to attract and hold the interest of a reasonably intelligent human being, so I may be wrong.
Anyway... my concern, based on the forum thread, comes down to the apparent belief of quite a few Hubbers, that there's an 'ideal size' for a Hub. Kind of a Goldilocks Principle, I guess. Not too long. Not too short. But ‘just right’. And, what’s worse, that Hubs with 'soft' topics like poetry, that are (deemed by these people to be) 'creative' vs ‘commercial’, and therefore less likely to generate traffic, should be quarantined away from the work of more astute / savvy/ smarter contributors.
But, I couldn't disagree more.
My first (second..) article won’t be highly commercial, in fact it’s not ‘commercial’ at all, except in the sense that I hope it rates well enough to eventually generate a return (which is the reason I’m here at HubPages). It’s not a very high-rating topic. But it’s a topic that fascinates me, and I believe other people too, and I really just want to use it to test my article-writing chops, and start learning how to add the online technology hooks that HubPages provides us with, to help amplify readership.
Currently at 4000 words, (“Whoa..”, I can hear those Goldilocksers exclaiming), it conforms to the widely-accepted structure of any article that hopes to draw and hold a reader's attention. A descriptive heading, supported by a flowing narrative with a beginning, a middle, and an end. If it's engaging enough to hold people through to the end (even though some may choose not to read the piece at all) surely that's the test of any contribution. Not an arbitrary assumption that, based on word count, it's too long.
Or too short. In contrast, consider the Haiku, in which the Japanese have refined the ability to communicate eloquently on a variety of themes, within a tiny and rigid 3 line, 5/7/5 syllable structure, as below:
I am first with five
Then seven in the middle
Five again to end
(If you're not familiar with the Haiku, I recommend you Google it; in the best examples you'll be blown away at the power of their oxymoronic 'deep brevity').
Of course, I’m not suggesting that a one-haiku HubPages contribution could succeed in pulling a crowd, whether measured by Google, or Joe Bloggs. I’m simply pointing out the incongruity of the assumption that communication effectiveness can be pre-determined by whether something is deemed too long, or too short. Or too 'soft', too 'creative', to be worthy of sharing the same HubPages space as information-based contributions focused solely on revenue building.
In fact, it’s worse than incongruous, it’s arrogant, to pre-judge the work of others in such a way. Not to mention the opportunities a person denies themself to be surprised, perhaps even delighted, when opening their heart, instead of closing their mind to work that sits outside their pre-conceived notion of what is ‘just right’.
As far as I’m concerned, in written expression, there’s no such thing as right or wrong. Just different. And because that’s a matter of personal taste, it upsets me to know that there are potentially worthwhile works here at HubPages that are Hub Hopped down by people who have perhaps forgotten that the site’s raison d'être is to provide an environment where writers at all skill levels, and across a range of genres, are encouraged to express their individual thoughts, to a wide audience, not merely fellow Hubbers.
Besides, who really knows what will hook an audience, that other Hubbers may then benefit from? Not Goldilocks, that’s for sure. Just 3 bears? Come on.....
Furthering the debate, is a hit movie always 65 – 90 minutes long? Movie marketers will say there’s an ideal length, demanded by film distributors and theatre owners. “Deviate from it at your peril” they’ll say, “if you want to find a buyer for your work, and generate high returns”.
But, movie directors will say that’s rubbish. They’ll say “A story takes the time it takes to tell well. If it’s not told well, audiences won’t enjoy the movie, and it’ll go to cable before you can say ‘What happened to my investors’ returns?’“
That's not to say longer is always better. There's a wealth of powerful short movies that take less than 5 minutes to "reach out and touch someone". It's all about personal preference, and what's right for the particular task.
The huge number of movies, TV shows, musical compositions, books, poetry, prose, architecture and works of art that achieve acclaimed success not just in spite of not conforming to the ‘rules’, but frequently because they don’t, is testament to my belief that in all forms of creative expression, there’s no right. No wrong. Just different.
I hope I am right in that belief, because having gotten this off my chest, I’m all fired up to get back to my ‘first’ Hub pages article!
As I said before, I'm an absolute newbie Hubber, and keen to learn, so any and all comments will be welcomed.
.
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Comment on 'Why The Hub Hopper is a Risk to Creative Expression.'Loading...
Hi North Wind
Thanks for taking the time to comment. And thanks for the positive support.
Cheers
Welcome and thanks for saying all the right things. If we're just going to concentrate on SEO's without a heart, we just need to turn everything over to the computers and let them generate our articles. Just eliminate the human factor altogether. As for me, I would rather read something that makes me think, touches my heart, or helps me feel I am not alone than any of the "revenue-producing" hubs on HP.
Thanks for your comments DIYweddingplanner, both here and in the forum. (And for your generous rating). I'm sure we all realise that HubPages can't exist unless the site draws large volumes of traffic, so articles designed primarily to achieve that, are vital. My point is simply that I don't believe creativity and commercial effectiveness are in any way mutually exclusive. Otherwise, explain the millions invested in the highly creative and entertaining TV ads that run in the SuperBowl; and often only there. Make a big enough impact on people's hearts as well as their minds, and it will last. Ditto online writing that talks to man, not machine.
Hi Writeronline. This is a well written and well thought out argument, but I think you are misunderstanding the hub hopper. Hubbers do not have the power to "hop down" your content. Flagging something that you believe is low quality merely lets admin take a look at it to decide whether or not it needs work or is in violation of TOS. Personally, I have found them to be very fair and even handed in their assessments.
Regarding short content, you are right. A poem or other work can be very short, yet powerful and eloquent. On the other hand, the search engines tend not to index content that is less than 350-400 words. No matter how beautiful your writing, if it doesn't get indexed, nobody will ever see it. I've published some haiku, myself, but I would liken publishing a hub with just a single haiku (or even 2 or 3) to trying to publish a book with just one poem in it. I've had far more success with publishing collections, or adding things like what inspired the poem, who it was written for, things like that. It's not so much about quality as it is being found and read.
I don't think most people would flag a hub for being too long, unless it was obviously stuffed with keywords and spammy links. If they did, admin would likely ignore it unless it had some serious issues. I have found, however, that readers tend not to read all the way to the bottom of a very long article. No matter how well you write, people get tired of looking at the screen for that long, and tend to scan a page for the info that interests them. I've had very long articles that received very little traffic until I broke them down into a series of shorter ones. Again, that's not a quality issue. To each their own.
By the way, I found this hub on the hopper and have rated it up. Thanks for a good read!
Hi rmr
I'm glad you found this a well thought out argument. And took the time to not only read it, but to offer a different point of view. In turn I found your clarification and insights very helpful. I suspect my first (second..) piece is already doomed, not only because it's not commercially focused (it's called 'Why the Urban Legend Will Never Die', so I can see where I've gone wrong..), but also because it doesn't lend itself to being broken into separate parts. To use a reverse analogy with your point about a book containing a single poem, breaking my effort up would be like the old days of serialising a story over several issues of a magazine. Which would require people to be deeply enthralled, in order to follow the progression. Much more likely I think, they'd just say "too hard, sorry." and move on. However, I may as well publish it (in toto)anyway, it's all part of the learning process. But from now, I'll seek out more commercially-focused topics. Thanks again.
Hi writeronline. I'd say doomed is a strong word, and depends on your idea of success. If only you're here to make money, then a more commercial topic may be what you need. If your main goal is to write and interact with your readers, then I'd say you're off to a great start. The beautiful thing about HubPages is that there's room for both. There's nobody here to tell you what to write about, and no list of topics that you must choose from. HubPages welcomes poetry, short stories, and pretty much anything else you might care to write, as long as it is within the TOS.
My main point was that the hub hopper is not there to keep new or non-commercial writers away, and being flagged does not unpublish your hub. It's simply one of the tools used to call questionable content to admin's attention. I'm not one to sit in judgment of another writer, but you would be surprised at how much pure garbage and spam gets posted here on a daily basis. It's far more than the moderators could possibly keep up with. As members of the community, it's up to us to help them keep the site alive and healthy by flagging appropriately.
Best of luck here! I think once you get the feel of things you'll love Hubpages.
This was such an interesting and well-written article! I know that the recent Google algorithm change has created a large amount of unrest, and now people are continually striving to figure out the new system. For a lot of people, this means increasing article length--but that's missing the point! If Google is trying to rank relevant, useful articles higher, then readers might gravitate towards shorter and longer articles if those are the best ones. This really put things in perspective for me, especially with all of the debates going on. Thanks for sharing and best of luck! :)
Hi ellie.w, I'm glad you found this thought-provoking, and thanks for taking the time to post a comment. As to the debates going on, my wife's grandmother used to say, (as a way of ending a discussion that had become, let's say, a little 'passionate'), "It's a broad subject." I think with hubPages, we have away to cater for as many 'broad subjects' as we like.
I really loved this HUB, really really loved it.
Hi Soldadodedios, I'm glad you enjoyed this, and I'm very appreciative of your 'really' positive response.. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
couldn't have said it better myself and believe me, I've said something similar several times. I couldn't agree more either. Great hub. i look forward to reading much more from you.
Hi BobbiRant, thanks for your positive comment. I've just read your new hub that clearly reinforces what you say above, about having similar views. I enjoyed it very much.
I for one am not here to blog, learn how to write, or make money. I am here to have my writing taken seriously as an information source so I can maybe get a job someday. The reputation of my writing depends on both the quality of my hubs, and unfortunately, the quality of the other work on the site. I hub hop a lot, and I flag a lot of hubs that are of poor quality, and therefore reflect poorly on everyone who is trying to present quality work. That does not mean I have the power to remove them. It just means that I am bringing them to the attention of the staff. They make the decision, but I believe that they depend on people like me to help them keep the site clean.
Dear Writer on line,
I learned a lot from your Hub. As a newcomer to writing, Hubpages and the Internet, I still am trying to find my position. The knowledge I gained from this hub and the discussion going on will help me to find a good stand and thank you and others who have commented.
I also do some hub hopping... not to pass judgments on writing (as I am not qualified or knowledgeable)but to flag down all irrelevant spamy links.
Looking forward to read more from you.
Hi Sun Pen 50, I'm glad you found something of value here, in both the article and in the comments. And thanks for taking the time to say so.
I did happen upon the discussion in the forums, I read the comments but did not add any. On occasion I do Hub Hop. I have flagged some Hubs as well. Those were poorly written, nonsensical making them difficult to read. Just tossing words in here or there that made me wonder what the writer was trying to say.
I think the purpose of the 'too short' Hubs isn't regarding poetry, just those that really don't say anything. I have happened upon those as well and wrestled with the decision to flag or not flag. If they are short (3 paragraphs) and don't tell me anything new, then I might flag them. Or if the title promises to tell me something and the entire issue is skirted, I get told nothing, then I might flag that as well.
Poetry, honestly if it doesn't grab me in the first line I'm not going to read it. It's nothing against the poet, I'm just not into poetry much. I do not flag those at all, I will just hop without voting.
I understand that we all are different and have different styles of writing. That is what makes Hubpages great. I am a little upset at the removal of personal hubs ie; diary type Hubs. My thought is if someone wants to write their daily life, why not? If they get views all the better for them!
This is a great subject and one that you tackled very well! You're going far here on HubPages!! I can feel it!
I am rather new to hubpages myself and I made the mistake at first of thinking that this is just another blog. After much more research and writing I know now that to be taken seriously as a writer of anything, I have to be honest and forthright...so here goes..this hub was informative for me, not just for the hub but the comments left as well and I have a weakspot for anyone who tells it like they see it...happy hubbing and looking forward to reading more! :)
Hi Sweetsusieg, thanks for dropping by, and thanks for sharing your views. I think the dialog that can take place in the comments section of a Hub is a hugely valuable part of the process we're all sharing at HubPages; broadening our skills, and broadening our minds. Cheers.
Hi LoopyGem, thanks for taking the time to read this, and especially for leaving your comment. As you can see from my response to Sweetsusieg above, I completely agree with you, that 'post-hub' comments can often be where the real insights are revealed. Best to you as you grow here.
Hello writer...Welcome and thank you for a very informative hub.I appreciate you taking the time to do the homework.It has helped me very much,as I am fairly new to hubpages too.I will be sure to follow you! I look forward to more of what you come up with,and btw I voted up this hub!
Hi tumblintumblweed, thanks for your kind comment. I'm flattered that you're planning on following me; hopefully I'll write more Hubs that will hold your interest. I've found a few other Hubbers whose knowledge and wisdom have helped me so far - if you go to my profile page and click to the article about "Writing Well.." I've linked to a very informative article from each of 4 of them, which in company with my own contribution, collectively adds up to a kind of 'primer for early stage Hubbers', which may be of benefit to you. Feel free to let me know what you think, (if you decide to take a look). Cheers.
I hub hop from time-to-time, mainly to find interesting writers that I wouldn't find any other way. I don't make judgments about quality. Readership to some extent determines that. Although, a hub could be excellent and get very few readers and be mediocre and get a lot. But ultimately the "market" gets to decide if something is worth reading or not.
Hi Learn Things Web, thanks for your input. Like you, I've found hub hopping to be a good way of expanding my 'reading zone'. So much good work is constantly being loaded that it's self-limiting to only check categories or writers that are familiar. Heaps of talent on this site, to discover and enjoy.
I used Hub Hopper and rated up and downs some hubs..
I have come across your hub because of the news I am about to deliver to you! Ready?
Friday the 13th Hubnuggets News: Congratulations! Your hub has been nominated on the Hubnuggets! http://hubpages.com/_hubnuggets6/hub/Camping-at-Cr
Also, do participate in the forum and share your delight with everyone! http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/75239
Read and vote!
Dear writeronline-welcome to the interesting, never-boring, community of Hubpages. Congratulations! The controversial issue of hub hopping has left a series of serious comments. That's a sure sign that you've hit on an interesting topic, which is every writer's dream.
Further, may I add my two cents. 1. I loved your article. Well written and presented. 2. Yes, I did click over to the link and read through (beginning to end) the thread. I don't blame you for feeling wary about publishing a hub. As a newbie, it seems like a daunting experience. I am grateful that when I began, one year ago this month, there wasn't the emphasis then as there is today on 'getting things right'. In fact, hubhopping had not existed back then. I believe I would have turned tale and ran the other way. 3. Reading through the forum thread is unnerving and I felt my stomache tighten up as in, 'I-think-I'm-going-to-vomit' contraction. I can't help but feel a wave of 'salem witch trials' there-blamed and burned before thoroughly investigated. 4. I disagree with rmr's opinion about 'what's it all about'. That's merely my humble opinion. Everyone has different background experiences that they form their opinion from and in my opinion it isn't the 'helping the Hubteam weed out garbage, spam hubs', as much as it is a platform for righteous hubbers to dictate what THEY feel is quality, worthy hubs. Who are we to judge another's hub? I would say, for the record, that the only hubs I would flag are ones that have no material at all except for a direct link to another source outside of HP; and for those that are filled with adult content and offensive in that matter. Otherwise, I follow my mother's advice: if you can't say anything nice don't say it-(not critiquing hubs, mind you, but slamming or flagging them). But, that's just me.
Other than that: Congratulations on your hubnugget nomination. Be sure to let your family and friends know about this accomplishment and encourage them to vote. They do not need to sign up or be HP members. The winner is selected by popular vote, so now it comes down to more than the content and into the 'popularity' zone.
I wish you much success on your writing journey!
Congrats on your nomination! I wish you luck on your hubbing journey. Interesting food for thought here...Thanks!
Hi Denise, thanks for your kind words of encouragement. Thanks too, for sharing your own experiences with forums; and for your congratulations on my HubNugget nomination. No way I'll win, but it's flattering to be amongst the group!
Hi tipoague, thanks so much for your congrats, and I'm glad you found this article interesting. Cheers.
writer-you've written a great hub and one deserving of the hubnugget nomination-and award! So, just get out of the negativity zone and call on friends and family to vote. Every person's vote counts so ... remember the one with the most votes ANYWHERE wins. Good luck.
I completely agree with you - this hub is excellent and in the eyes of Hub Hoppers - too long? I had never heard about these people before so I will be sure to check them out.
Your hub kept me engaged from start to finish and that is the sign of a good hub... and look at it film wise - the Lord of the Rings Trilogy is nine hours long - 12 if you buy the extended versions :D and well worth every second!
I really enjoyed this! You made some excellent points in your argument, and I really like your writing style and voice. Congratulations on your HubNugget nomination! I sincerely wish you all the best.
~TPM :)
Hub hopping has helped me to see the variety of approaches people are using to creating hubs. I learned it is okay to write things as helpful (or even superficial) as movie and book reviews, to painful self-exposition. Humor, short stories, near-scientific definitions...anything goes, or could go as long as it's well-written. I could have learned all that from the forum, frequently asked Q&A's and other informational Hub Pages links, but hub hopping provided faster learning. I do confess to voting some really poor efforts down. But most of the time I only thoroughly read the ones I'm interested in, and end up voting them up! Congratulations on your nomination...I predict long, successful future for you with Hub Pages!
Hi, Laura, TPM, and dearabbysmom, thanks all of you for taking the time to read this, and to leave such kind comments. I must confess, I've become quite the Hub hopper myself - but I don't really judge anyone's writing, (anyone who's making a genuine effort). Besides, it's getting quite hard to find, because there's so much obviously spun or recycled rubbish being posted; which I now delight in flagging...
This hub makes some very valid points and I enjoyed your writing. Congrats on your nomination.
Hi, Pamela99, thanks for taking the time to read, and to post your positive comment and congrats. I appreciate it. Cheers.
Congratulations on a great hub and the nomination. I'm new myself, but what HubHopping I do, I never penalize a piece for being too long or short, as long as it is informative or thought-provoking. Like others, I'll flag stuff that is purely promotional, copied, or spun. I'll be watching for more of your work.
Great hub writeronline your use of the English language is brilliant, and your writing skills for a newb are fantstic.
I am a little bit different. As an online webmaster who makes most of his income through blogs, websites and freelance SEO tech, I am dictated by the niche's and pages of my blogs and sites as to what complementing hubs I will write for these sites.
I aim to do them fast but well, and to give my pages a bit of hubpages love, it works great in fact!. The point I am trying to make is that everyone should be allowed to use an open platform like hubpages however they like, as long as the hubs do not discriminate against anyone and as long as a strict NO SPAM policy is maintained I do not see why writing about anything could be a problem other than it reduces the revenue made by hubpages by having more less commercial and less searched for topics which probably affects hubpage overall pagerank and search engine weight.?
Creative expression is indeed what should matter most. Your article is awesome and it said precisely what I am feeling ever since I signed up for HP.
I am still a newbie here, but I have always believed that my creativity was the only thing that was important; sharing what I do gives me the opportunity to get real feedback. Hubpages hosts a large pool of talented writers who need to show off their work and avoid compromising.
Well there you have it, Writeronline-the votes have been cast and tallied and, with a little bit of positive thinking, nudging family and friends, and getting a great discussin going here in the comment section, you have WON! Congratulations to you on placing in the Hubnugget Awards this week. Now, go brag about it on your profile page-you deserve the recognition. Well done.
Voted a definite up!
You shared a very valid opinion -- we don't all have to write about "just" topics that are going to sell. In the end, who knows with 100 percent certainty, what Hubs will generate high page views? Nobody.
It's only by analyzing that a Hubber can choose, but that article choice may not always be right. Factors, like how well the Hub is written, how interesting the topic is (or isn't) links, readability, photos and videos all affect the ultimate page views.
Thanks for saying what you did!
Just read the hub hopping forum thread. I am now educmacated. Yeep!
jponiato
kenny thomas
Clairepeek
I’m glad you enjoyed the read, thanks for taking the time to say so.
And please excuse me for lumping you all together, but from your comments, I’d say we’re all in the same place philosophically anyway!
Cheers
Hi Denise, nobody's more surprised than me to have placed (not 'won'...you know the old saying "Second place is the first loser")- I'm smiling, Denise :)
Thankyou for your flattering support!
Hi crochet48, thanks for the up! You’re right about topics, even though we’re led to believe that to succeed as a revenue-producing Hubber, “information is everything”, we only have to change that to “people are looking to find stuff”, to make any and all forms of online communication / expression, potential candidates for meaningful ratings.
As the net matures, we’re already seeing it replace broadcast TV as the primary choice for ‘finding’ entertainment. Not just information...I personally think the next logical step is for HubPages to establish itself as a destination, like a mini Google, but focused on written expression; of all types. There’s room for everything then – except spun, duplicated, or substandard work.
Hang on, I’m sounding like one of those ‘ones who know all’ on that forum thread! Gulp.
So glad to see you received recognition for a topic well worthy of discussion! It's a good thing Tolstoy wasn't held to a 500-600 word limit, eh?
You keep on calling 'em as you see 'em. Well done. Voted up and useful.
Congratulations on your win. You deserve it. I was engaged all the way through this. I'm another who hesitates to flag or vote down a hub -- even one of questionable quality -- unless I see a clear violation of terms of service or a hub which is unquestionably bad. (I know that's subjective, but for me it means a hub that really was not written by a real person for real people to read, and as an ex-English teacher I'm pretty good at recognizing writing of mixed styles which are obviously copies and strung together with a few of the "writer's" own words.
I will make allowances for poor English skills if it's obvious the author is not a native speaker of English and is doing very well when one takes that into account. I probably wouldn't do very well writing in German, which I could write more fluently when I was still taking it in college. That was 50 years ago and I've lost most of it. I'd have a rough time trying to write a hub of 400 words in German.
Good golly, Miss Mellie (sorry, couldn't resist :) how nice of you to take the time to leave such a positive comment. And to rate this up as well. Thanks so much.
I always try to leave a positive comment on a hub; if I read one I don't like (for whatever reason), I neither comment nor rate it. Someone else might think it's the best thing they've ever read (for whatever reason). Who am I to judge?
Your hub expresses an important point that explains why I tend not to frequent the forums. Thanks for this insightful read. Rated up and awesome!
Welcome to HubPages and congrats on your nomination.
Hi, WannaB Writer, (I've been to your profile page; how come you're not called AmA Writer?...)
Thankyou for your congratulations. And, don't be apologising too much for not remembering your German studies after 50 years. It's been almost that long since I finished high school, and I don't remember much about English(!)- which may be why it takes me so long to compose, edit, finesse - and repeat, before publishing an article....
Hi, PWalker281, sounds like you and I share the same approach to the work of fellow Hubbers, thanks for taking the time to share, and thanks too for your congrats.
This was certainly a very interesting hub. I enjoyed what you had to say.
Hi, Mrs. J.B., I'm glad you found this interesting. Thanks for taking the time to say so.
Excellent Hub - and y'know what? - Just the right length. ;)
Thanks Gaizy, appreciate you saying so!
I haven't been on hubpages for a while, and returned to find out about this hub hopping feature: it intrigued me. I did hop a little bit, but wasn't really sure what to do with it.
Anyways, I think this hub is definetly thought provoking and I believe it to be very healthy to keep a critical mind. just because it seems a good tool doesn't mean it really is, and many things backfire..
I do agree with your argument, just because quality to some extent can become subjective. But, now that I have familiarized myself with this feature, I do think it becomes more of a tool for admins to monitor the quality of hubpages as a writing platform, not so much to say who is deemed worthy or not.
That's my piece of mind on the topic, it seems to fall in the middle of all these other comments, but it is my way of seeing hub hopping.
Great hub!
Hi varonny, thanks for reading, and thanks for taking the time to comment.
Since I wrote this, I have developed a better understanding of the intended purpose of the HubHopper, to the extent that I'm now a 'frequent flyer' myself.
But I haven't amended this hub because the essence of what I was trying to convey remains valid: written expression comes in many forms, all of which are valid, as long as they're from humans, not article spinners...
Cheers.
Very well said and I fully agree. I have not really concerned myself with SEO, Panda, Google or anything else. What matters in the end is content. They may fiddle with the numbers, but they can't stop people from reading what interests them.
Hi Sylvia's Thoughts, thanks for dropping by, and for taking the time to comment.
Since I wrote this, I must confess to being a little disappointed at how Google influences so much of what rates, or doesn't. As you've no doubt seen since your recent return, I'm not the only one.
That's not to say it all has to be taken too seriously, I enjoy writing just for the joy of it, I like to write about different things, and experiment with different styles*, and HP is a great place to do that, imo.
*If you have 5 minutes to waste, take a look here, :)
Another brilliant piece. I'm very impressed. I think your point about Google is well-made, and thankfully, if widespread speculation is any indicator, they are planning on making good on their promise to focus on user-driven content in a dramatic way over the next little while. When that does occur, I suspect a lot of the junk being fed to the search engines which is still ranking will quickly disappear.
Hi Bud, thanks for your complimentary comments, I appreciate the feedback. I hope you're right about Google.
I've written a piece about what I see as the glaring differences between what HP says constitutes a good hub, and the hubs that Google rates highly. Just more opinion from me, if you feel like spending any more time reading... you'll find it easily on my profile page.
Cheers.
Any HP writer who can generate the number of comments you've garnered for this hub should not worry! When writing is excellent (as yours is), topics are interesting and articles are content rich, it's a "build it, and they will come" situation. Google or no Google.
Jaye
Hi again Jaye, and thanks for your kind comment. As to "build it, and they will come", we all live in hope, don't we..? Cheers.
I came across this Hub while answering a question and was about to comment to correct your misunderstanding - luckily I skimmed the comments and see you now understand Hubbers have no power to remove or even damage other Hubbers' Hubs, in the Hopper or anywhere else - all they can do is flag Hubs, which is simply asking a moderator to look at them.
You say you won't amend the Hub because the Hub still makes some valid points - and I agree that the valid points should remain, but I do think you need to revise the sections which give wrong information about hopping. Remember newbies read Hubs like this to learn about HubPages so it's not good to leave incorrect information out there.
Marisa, I'm surprised you feel this hub is unacceptable as it stands. Funnily, your comment supports the state of mind that I'm questioning. "I came across this Hub while answering a question and was about to comment to correct your misunderstanding..." Did you read the hub prior to being gripped by this need to red-pencil it?
As far as I'm concerned, as you'd see if you read the comments fully, the hub works perfectly well, because it ..you know what Marisa? I'm not going to bother to explain it. Sometimes, life is just too short to bother. However, I think you can safely rely on the ability of other hubbers to make their own judgements and contributions, as per the comments here.
As a matter of interest, the hub received a Hubnugget Award, and as I'm sure you'll have made it your business to know, while these are voted on by Hubbers, the initial selections are made by HubPages staff / moderators.
Cheers.
I 100% agree with your hub and your response to the arrogant Marisa Right. Oops...Wright. More and more creative expression is being dictated, rather than given, especially here on HP. I'm still trying to figure out how the "Ostrich" hub won the recent contest. It seems that hubs that have substance regularly get passed over in favor of frivolous ones. But then what does one expect when they are being judged by a Google machine. But then you say they are judged by staffers. Go figure. Hub hopping is good in theory, but you're allowing anyone to judge a hub. Someone with no experience, someone who may not like a hub because it's better than theirs, someone who's had a bad day. To believe Ms. Wright, one would have to say that we all are just blind, stupid sheep who believe whatever we're told (flagging hubs is not damaging?). HP might be quite surprised to learn just how many of their best hubbers are extremely disenchanted with the direction HP is taking. They want you to delete the "wrong parts" because they don't want the new hubbers to learn the truth.
A really fantastic hub here, WO, and I'm glad to have come across your work. Sylvia also makes some great points above, and I, too, have become slightly disenchanted with HP of late. There are undoubtedly flaws with 'Hub Hopping,' and the fact that many seem to vote up or down based either on the brevity & neutrality of the hub, or on whether their opinions correlate with that of the author. Far too often, the quality of writing and the potential the hub has for engaging readers in a worthwhile discussion, seem to be an afterthought.
Whatever the case might be, you are proof that there remains a certain level of quality on HP, and I look forward to reading more of your hubs.
Yes, let's not scare the naive 'newbies' who BTW,Will also learn in time they are being slighted. LOL We know which side of the fence some are on!
Ouch...
Writeronline, I understood you to say you had modified your views since writing the Hub - in which case it only makes sense to revise the Hub to reflect your new understanding. One of the virtues of HubPages is that you can revise and improve your Hub as often as you like, unlike some other sites. Clearly I misunderstood, for which I apologise.
Personally, I'm sorry that silly thread about what to flag and what not to, which was full of rubbish posted by some uninformed Hubbers - not guidelines from HubPages staff - has led some other Hubbers to decide there's something sinister about Hub Hopping. If you choose to believe it, it's your business - although in that case, I'm surprised you're still here.
Drats, just missed the opportunity to edit my comment.
I should clarify, I'm not suggesting revising the "guts" of this Hub, just the introduction which suggests it's all about Hub Hopping and the "damage" it can supposedly do. Once we get past that and on to the topic if what kind of writing belongs on Hubpages, I'm not suggesting you should change one word.
And Bobbi, I didn't know there was a fence. You'll find plenty of places where I've been critical of HP, where I think it's deserved. In the case of Hub Hopping, based on my long experience on HP, I don't believe it is deserved.
Some are just so arrogant that they have been here for awhile they think they are better than anyone else. Too many people here trying to tell everyone how to write. Especially the HP so called elite.
Sylvia's Thoughts
.josh.
BobbiRant
vietnamvet68
Thanks for dropping by, and thanks for your support. It's appreciated.
Cheers.
Marisa,
"...based on my long experience on HP...".
In my experience, as a professional writer my entire working life, I'd have to say that the kiss of death is believing your own publicity. "Having tickets on yourself", as we say down here in OZ.
From the persistently superior tone of your comments, both here and on my other hub, and your need to go on enforcing your point of view, it appears your 'experience on HP' hasn't yet taught you that.
It's a valuable piece of advice Marisa, not meant in any way other than constructively. Try not to waste it.
Cheers
OK, my last 2cents here is this: There will Always be someone who will give YOU their 2cents. Fortunately for me, I hardly ever heed that 2cents worth anyway. Just write as you do and I guarantee, 'some people will like you, some people won't' It happens to me a lot. ;0) Rock on!
Thanks Bobbi - love your work!
Writeronline. Everything about this hub points out the sufferance of writers through the ages. When it was treason or Heresy to write something different.
Where is the freedom of speech?
Great job and kudos to you.
Ddraigcoch, hi, thanks for reading, it's interesting that, because of the net, (even though we may get the odd thing banned by the HP mods, and certain countries censor access), people today are more able to share thoughts, ideas and concepts than at any time in history. So, I guess that is pretty close to freedom of speech...
Thanks for commenting, Ddraigcoch.
Brilliant work, WriterO! Certainly makes me think. BTW - I am certainly going to be a fan, if you will have me.
Sometimes I wonder what I'm even doing here. I write articles from time to time about subjects dear to my heart and mind, but out of my132 hubs so far, 76 are my original poetry: - "soft", "creative rather than commercial". I've made not a penny, nor had I intended to! In fact, I didn't intend to venture out of my shell and offer any words at all much. I joined to support a writer-friend who had recently joined and was excited about it, encouraged me to try it, knowing how wordy I can be - and when he mentioned having followers, I figured I ought to at least come on board to support and follow him! Next thing I knew I was writing like someone who intended to!
But I still didn't intend for a moment to share my lifetime of unpublished, virtually unseen poetry. But before long I put together a hub with mostly poetry, and - voila! People liked it. I used some of my original art and a sense of style of presentation which is second-nature to me, and that has been well-received by readers, too.
Anyway, the point was, if I can remember what it was, - that I'm surely the antithesis of what a Hubber is supposed to be in many or most regards. I like to support other writers and when I like their stuff, I read it with concentration, not just perfunctorily, and I comment in depth and/or at length at times. Etc, Etc. I'm just who I am here as elsewhere. One reason I hesitated to join is that I can't bear elitist groups of experts who all seem to be stuck on out-experting each other. It's usually not that way on HP, unless one includes advice on how to get more traffic and make more money here. Then it can become pretty dog-eat-dog with the expertise.
I think this comment proves how little expertise I have on those subjects!! wink,wink.
A major anomaly about me here on Hubpages may be that I'm in my 80th year and most of the concerns besetting people are things I've already survived - sometimes fairly successfully. I suppose that makes me a bit of a misfit, except that I find my readers are quite kind toward my efforts. Maybe they are all ex Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts who really internalized the bit about helping old ladies across streets! Think?
Hi Nellieanna, welcome to my lil' corner of Hubland..I'm delighted that you're interested in following me, flattered in fact, based on what I read in your comment about your achievements and involvement here.
I initially joined to write articles sharing what I've learned from a fairly long working life in advertising. Once I got that down, my efforts branched out into 'things I think are important about writing and creative expression in general', and have since resulted in my relishing the opportunity to experiment with completely different styles and types of writing, incl fiction, and satire (only once each, so far...). Don't know if any of it's any good, but I've always found great joy in writing, and it's fantastic in the modern age to have access to a platform like HP, where one can actually 'publish' pretty much whatever one likes. And, get valuable peer feedback from readers all over the world.
I'll certainly pop over to your place when I can, to take a look at what sounds like an intriguing, and creative, body of work.
On your last point about 'finding your readers are kind toward your work', I don't think it's about helping little old ladies across the street; I think it's likely more about being delighted to be sharing the information superhighway with someone who's been on life's road for a deal longer...it's certainly been my experience that, if you keep your mind open, you can learn a lot from such folks. :)
Cheers
Alrighty then! This was a detour well worth taking. Thanks for sharing writeronline.
You're welcome to whatever you got out of it snakeslane, thanks for reading. And commenting.
Someone who thinks hubs shouldn't be too long haven't read Patty Inglish's hubs. I find that some of the forum commentary just ticks me off. as a result, unles I am confused by something or want to know about this weeks hubnuggets or (not this or next, but usually) the weekly topic inspiration. as such, I tend to avoid social and political forums. I just can't take the negativity all the time. There are some others categories of forums I simply won't go near beyond that. I try to ignore the "trolls" who only want to be negative for the sake of being negative rather than disagree with you on a respectful level. Oh, well.
You're quite right FBR, the net is the great enabler, but to many that simply means a chance to mouth off in online anonymity, and impose their views on others. I've been caught up in a couple of interchanges, in Hub comments unfortunately, where people start out seeming to want to engage, and express, or reinforce, an alternative opinion, which I welcome, but faced with responses whose logic they can't or won't accept, simply degenerate into abuse.
Sometimes, when I can't seem to get an idea for a hub, I go to the Answers or Forums to see what people are seeking to find out. Sadly, that tends to depress me more...
Geez, what a joygerm I am today. Not! Sorry.
Thanks for reading my hub, and taking time to comment.
"I am first with five
Then seven in the middle
Five again to end" - Can you explain this to me? I never got these things ...
"And because that’s a matter of personal taste, it upsets me to know that there are potentially worthwhile works here at HubPages that are Hub Hopped down by people" - I for one have no self-esteem issues (I have other ones lol) so, "hopping-me-down" or whatever the terminology is, will have very little effect on how I will continue writing.
I personally have not turned-on my Ad-sense account and so I have no reason to write except that I write because I love writing. I pay no attention to how long or short my blogs are. My last essay I think was around 7,400 words and then, there are blogs where all you get is photos with almost no words at all.
I think if you love doing what your doing, keep doing it. If on the other hand you want to make money then, make money and do not pretend to be an artist: an artist creates work and could care less what people think. An artist will not create art the way others want art to be created thus, paying no attention to how long a blog is or how many key words (whatever that means) are incorporated could be beneficial (in my opinion).
Very nice blog. Cheers!
P.S. The link you left on Kallini's blog for this piece of writing does not work. You should maybe check-it-out.
Mr. happy-I know what WOL meant:
this haiku explains the number of syllables in a haiku:
1. I am first with five (five syllables first line)
2. Then seven in the middle-(the second/middle line has seven syllables)
3. Five again to end-there are five syllables in the last line
Hi Mr Happy, thanks for taking the time to read this - and to leave a comment.
FBR, whose eloquent hubs, btw, you would surely enjoy, if you're not already familiar with her, (in the literary sense..! ), has explained the meaning and purpose of that particular haiku (thanks FBR..).
However, there are a number of excellent articles here on HP that explain it much more deeply. And it is deep. If you want to really understand the form, just search 'haiku' and a world of 'deep brevity' will reveal itself.
By those analyses, what's here doesn't actually qualify as a haiku, because the basic 'content rules' (as distinct from the syllabic structure), are that it should describe 'a single moment' and have a seasonal reference.
On the other hand, not surprisingly, and in support of the contention of this hub, (no right, no wrong, just different), now further reinforced by your comment, there are apparently schools of thought that challenge all three rules..
In which case, I guess a suitable post script to the article's haiku description could be,
I am first with five
Unless you need to change that
And if you do, then do
Cheers :)
Good morning, day, evening, night, the appropriate day of time!
For the fist hub you have done extremely well. You write well and most importantly you stroke a nerve with the community.
What and how to write is a good question, I believe after six months being here you have figured that out for yourself and made adjustments.
I did hub-hopping at the beginning, but it did not occur to me that hub-hopping is for flagging up/down. I did not know anyone here and I was looking for content - but it is rather tiresome task. I would leave a comment and a person would not dignify it with an answer. Which is fine.
I stopped hub-hopping long time ago. I don't think anyone would flag my content down - "are you crazy?" that kind of comment I can get, but you know my answer to that "Yes, I am." Case closed.
"My beloved Hubville." I don't live in the beloved Hubville. I live in the Crazyville. Actually I dislike the word "-ville" it is almost like "a village". I grew up in a big city - Moscow. I am not a ville girl (girl?)
I am not writing for anyone, but myself. I set the standards, I am the author/creator, target audience and control group in one.
There is one hub that took me a long time to write, but it was precisely the predicament: Why do I write? What? and Why? I reference your article there.
http://kallini2010.hubpages.com/hub/Creating-a-Vis
Once I established for myself what is what, it was much easier to move on.
Commercial or creative/artistic? I think the question is as old as Art and society itself. At one point I denounced everything commercial as not artistic. But then I realized that all artists had to find a compromise - to create and be able to sell it. My content is not commercial and I earn nothing (and I am not proud of my inability to earn money).
I cannot please everyone and I am not going to - the question is how to find that balance - to create and make a living.
Comments:
You recommended reading the comments and I agree that comments are a gold mine. I have had this idea forever - to get the best and rework them into separate hubs - most of the comments or threads lend themselves nicely into separate topics. I don't know if that makes sense to you. But it is much easier to read an article because it has structure than the comment flow - which is all over the place yet so reach in content.
All the very best,
I hope you are enjoying the journery on HubVille or Hub-megapolis or Hub Jungle?
Hi kallini, thanks for visiting. (It's early afternoon here as I write this, where I am in OZ is +14hrs GMT from you in Toronto, so from me "Good afternoon"..)
I agree with you re Hub-ville in the context of its use by some other site users. (At least I referred to it as Hubland). Very cute, very 'clique -y', quite immature..imo.
On the subject of what to write, and your comment, "My content is not commercial and I earn nothing (and I am not proud of my inability to earn money)", where I differ from you is that about 80% of what I've written to date, is fully intended to be commercial, ie: experience-based information on the topic of writing (for money, haha) that I'd thought would have relevance and value for a reasonable number of readers, and thus generate a return for me.
But not so. Not even remotely.
Partly because HP policy prevents me from linking to copywriting course affiliates, from whom I could conceivably earn realistic commissions, because HP has its own preferred advertiser programs.
Which in turn partly explains why I'm exactly like you in the second part of your comment "..I earn nothing (and I am not proud of my inability to earn money)".
That lack of return, and frustration with it, is the reason I've recently only written a few purely creative hubs, because I do love to write, and experiment with different styles; and HP provides a real opportunity for all of us Hubbers to 'pretend publish' work that will never generate a monetary return.
I say 'pretend publish' because in reality all we're doing (revise that, all I'm doing, can't speak for you, or anyone else,) is showing our work to a small group of followers, plus the occasional fellow Hubber while a piece is new, and settling for button pressing ratings, pats on the back, and HP 'accolade' symbols (which fluctuate wildly, and mean nothing).
But, what does that have to do with why most of us are here, or the site's alleged 'raison detre', where income generation is a basic plank of the HP proposition?
For myself, and many people who joined the site to generate income, (and I sense there are many who feel this way) I'm feeling HubPages is proving to be nothing more than a hugely time-consuming waste of creative energy. Something you could indulge in, as a part time frivolity if your life was sufficiently in order in other aspects (like generating a regular income...).
I've spent my working life writing - and thinking -clearly; in a field (advertising) where it is possible to balance creativity with commerce. That's what the ad business is. So I know the two aren't incompatible.
But for me, to date, at HubPages, they appear to have become so. A formula of 'free platform and hosting in exchange for 40% of revenue' sounds appealing. But for the bulk of hubbers is illusory. Because 40% of nothing, is nothing.
I'm off now to read your other piece, that you've linked here. Then I'm giving some more thought to whether I'd be better off shifting my work and striking out on my own. Sink or swim in my own pond...
For anyone reading this, (as has happened to me before), feeling the need to let me know that "if I don't like it, I know where the door is", don't bother. That just further reinforces to me, the small-minded 'clubbiness' that sadly pervades the site. Just remember, if the site ceases to generate returns for contributors, the site will cease to generate returns for itself. Then no-one will need to be shown the door. It will be closed. For good.
Cheers
Writeronline, I just read your response and I agreed and I laughed.
I think your comment is so well structured that it just need to be put in a separate hub (just remove it from here, that is all you have to do).
There are always people who tell you
"If you don't like it..."
The same principle as we were discussing with Mckbirdbks:
Women! You will never understand them. Love them or leave them.
Maybe HP could select and market creme de la creme to the wider audiences? I would not know how to do it.
Most people write here to satisfy their "throw up" reflex - they can hold no longer. The quality of "throw-up" material is irrelevant, it is the health of the body that is at stake.
LOL' Throw up material is precisely right. While my friends write very interesting hubs, I am sad to see so much garbage 'featured' and featured items that have simply been drug from another Internet site,to this one, how unoriginal. Why do I say that? Well because They are Not walking Wikipedias and so in the thin veil of research, material is simply regurgitated onto HP pages and crowned as 'brilliant.' Wow, I wish! But just because one owns or works in a pet store, electronics store, OR owns a writing site, does Not mean said people know anything about pets,electronics OR Writing. Well said, all of the responses.
Came to this hub after reading your goodbye comment to my dear hubber friend and mentor, BobbiRant. It is so sad to lose a writer with her talent.
You have made many excellent points and it's amazing that this was one of your first hubs since you got the Hub Hopping evaluation system so right (at least in my opinion).
When it comes to evaluating other hubs, whether while hopping or just reading, I follow what PWalker281 said in her comment: "I always try to leave a positive comment on a hub; if I read one I don't like (for whatever reason), I neither comment nor rate it. Someone else might think it's the best thing they've ever read (for whatever reason). Who am I to judge?
Your hub expresses an important point that explains why I tend not to frequent the forums."
I love diversity and a wide range of topics. I love when people express their heart felt opinions but I hate censorship and the hurling of insults. There is a huge difference between respectful debate and/or critique and simply trashing another's writing or opinions.
That having been said, I have had a very positive hubbing experience and have been amazed at the feedback and support I've received from fellow hubbers.
I will continue to write here because I enjoy following the work of hubbers whom I admire and I enjoy getting feedback on my own work.
You've certainly touched a nerve with this hub and it was interesting reading all the comments you garnered. Am voting up, useful and interesting.
I've gotten to the place where I don't even look for recognition from the HP powers-that-be. I know it's not about to happen because I haven't learned the art of writing "throw-up" material. (the new HP term) I write here because I really appreciate the friends I have developed and their writing. Their support and encouragement means far more than HP's stamp of approval. I used to 'hop' until I realized how ridiculous it was. I'm just glad that the constant fluctuation in my rating isn't my heart rate, or I'd be in REAL trouble!
I find that there are two extremes here: what is being labelled as "support" is a mutual admiration society. Compliments get so sugary that I just cannot take it anymore. Tit for tat reading - another caveat.
I don't think any writer can improve without constructive criticism or at least honest evaluation of content. Support is usually framed as "You are fantastic!" Am I? Thank you, but I would really appreciate if you read my work, not browse or scan it, which happens more often than not.
I guess I have coined a new HP term "throw up" material. But, of course, it was said by many talented/recognized writers long before me and they were talking about themselves. We all write that material.
I want to be free to say what I want, but I cannot. I will not be understood. So, I have to keep a critical eye on myself.
Your perceptive comments make a lot of sense to me. I've never had much enthusiasm for "hub hopping," however well-intentioned by HubPages and hub hoppers the process may be.
Hi Ralph, thanks for reading, and thanks for commenting. Not to put too fine a point on it, but they do say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Or something like that.. :)
Wow! Great hub.
You argument is sound, reasonable and true. As you said 'there is no right no wrong. Just different' i echo those words!
This is a well written hub that makes some great points I have been tossing around in my head for awhile. I write articles for web content and stick to the formulas that the site owners and publishers want. But I also write fiction and articles that actually cater to the reader instead of the computers.
I think we need to not get so mixed up in what "belongs" on Hubpages. What belongs is good writing in the context of what the piece is. People need to remember that when they are rating the articles.
ubanichijioke, hi, thanks for reading, and thanks for your comment.
billdowis, hi, you're right, 'good writing in the context of what the piece is' is the only valid consideration. Quality is important; creativity is paramount. That's why it's called free expression...
Thanks for your comment.
Thank you for steering me in the direction of this Hub. I enjoyed and bookmarked it. Voted up, useful, interesting, and AWESOME for very helpful views on Hub Hopping. I needed this when I first started Hub Hopping about four months ago. And, I'm following you! Thanks!
Hey Arlene, thanks for taking the time to take a look!And to comment. I'm glad you enjoyed it - and thanks for the ratings, I appreciate them.
Likewise the follow.
Cheers.
Excellent! I agree. Hubs need to be the size that they need to be. Creativity and self-expression must not be forgotten. That is the beauty of hubpages. Great hub!
writeronline...
(shout out to prairieprincess for the heads up your stuff!)
Above and beyond the excellent information provided within...it hints at what lies beyond within your other hubs which I am looking forward to reading!
Thanks,
Thomas
Great hub, I'm not surprised it won a hubnugget award. I'm quite jealous of, well let me see, your writing ability, your ability to find a unique subject to write about and your ability to deliver it.
I enjoy writing although I don't have much time for it, but would like to write more. Not necessarily for money as I enjoy my job, but I shall definitely follow on with you in the hope I may pick up some more helpful hints.
Thank you.
prairieprincess (love the evocation of that name), hi, and thanks for your comment. "Creativity and self-expression" are kinda the reason we're here, isn't it? Not just at HP, here, in the world...(that sounds a bit metaphysical, doesn't it?. Must be the 'evocation' of your name..)
ThoughtSandwiches, hi. Thanks for commenting.
I'm looking forward to hearing what you think after finding out 'what lies beyond'
Hopefully something you like. I'm a bit all over the place as far as content goes...
"I shall definitely follow on with you in the hope I may pick up some more helpful hints."
Is that like, "itsmonkeyboy see, itsmonkeyboy do"?
Sorry, just couldn't resist..:-0
Please don't be offended.
I'd be delighted if you found something of value to you in something I've written.
Ha, don't worry, no offence taken. I think my quote on FB is "monkey see monkey do" in any case. I just don't use that nickname on there of course.
I shall continue to read on and hopefully find some pearls of wisdom!
I can ....mostly promise you that four or five thousand word articles don't often work so well..but that's just my experience with those.
Ah the hub hopper! Yeah...well....see, at one point after "the panda" attacked and tried to maul this site to it's grave, we all who wanted to keep this site as the best open publishing site on the net...we as a group went rabid.
Yeah, we went nuts on hub hopping - we were all literally looking for reasons to flag stuff. I was a part of that myself. I'm loathe to flag someone for just not being so great at this..but oh boy how I was pleased to flag some crap from a profile with no avatar, and a measly 300 word hub with spelling errors!
The Sub Domain cured us all of that. I haven't hopped into the hopper in months. No need to now.
Great Hub...Fantastic First Hub. :) I am in complete agreement. Couldn't have written it better myself...kind of wish I had written it. I would say something else, but i do believe it has all already been said. :) Nice to have found you (courtesy of Michael/molometer. I look forward to reading more in the future.
phdast7, hi, thanks for reading, and esp for commenting so positively.
It's nice to have been found by you too:)
Since writing this inaugural Hub, I've expressed myself in various ways about various things, quite a lot more...if you feel like reading any, I'd be very pleased to get your feedback. (Not making any money here, but loving the interaction..)
I must say, there were MANY comments on here that are just as interesting as the article. I like your writing style and look forward to reading your next article, whatever it is on. Let me know when it is out and I will sit down with a drink and a pillow - so type away and dont cut anything out, please.
celestialgirl, hi, thanks for reading, and for commenting. You're absolutely right about the comments. That's also the case for a lot of what I've posted since this. I think comments can, and often do, add enormously to the perspective of the initial piece.
I'd be delighted to have you read more of my work. If you go to my profile page (mercifully short) you might find something 'just right' (groan...) to enjoy with your drink and pillow.
Hopefully, on more than one occasion:)
What an excellent first hub. I wholeheartedly agree - it isn't about the size - it is about the content. Whatever number of words it takes to get the job done, that's the right length. I just reviewed the movie Kites - there are two versions, one is much shorter than the other, and I really enjoyed the longer one more - the shortened version just left out the richness of the story.
Thanks for reading, Millionaire Tips, and for commenting. I also have a broad view about writing style/s and freedom of written expression, which I have boringly expressed on the excellent Hub Motown2Chitown wrote about 'the worst writing' and to which you referred in your latest 'best of' Hub. There's room for all of us, imo..
I've worked as an editor. You have to keep your personal opinions about content and style out of it. Above all, the artist has to shine through your editorial mark up. I fix basic mistakes, suggest tweaks then give my opinions in comments at the end.
The main thing I have learned from editing the work of others is not writing, but how to not rewrite.
Yeah, That Grrl, those disciplines are vital. It's not for editors (or in my case in the adbiz, product managers) to re-express ideas in the way they personally prefer. Not to say their thoughts and opinions aren't worth considering. Just not appropriate to rewrite original work.
North Wind Level 6 Commenter 15 months ago
I look forward to reading more from you. I came across this while Hub Hopping by the way but I have never been in the forum you are talking about. It never crossed my mind to vote a Hub down because I thought it was too short or too long. As for the movie length thing, I confess that my favorite movies are all that are over three hours. I even love one that is five hours long! That surprised me that people actually did that but it kind of makes sense now. You are new but that does not matter - you have taught me something!
By the way - this was voted up and useful.
Thanks