If I Said You Were A Piece Of S#*t, A Lowlife Piece Of Crap, And The Vile Of This Earth, Would You Hold It Against Me?
83.
Not if you were a Hub Pages moderator, you wouldn’t. In fact, at the same time as apparently disregarding other Hubbers flagging, and commenting on this verbal abuse, you’d actually elevate my Commenter Level, in recognition of such “insightful and engaging comments.”
Think I’m making that up? Read on...... I first saw the comment (not mine of course, and way more fulsome and aggressive than just the words in my headline, as you'll see in a moment), when I read this article, The Moneyed Classes Must Love Peaceful Demonstrations, written by diogenes, an experienced writer and prolific Hubber (whose Hubscore runs around 99/100.)
If you read the article and the author’s responses to comments, you’ll see that he needs no help in defending himself. And that’s not the point of this rant.
The point is that no-one writing for Hub Pages should be subjected to abuse of this kind. And worse, it should not be rewarded with an accolade upgrade.
Unless Hub Pages plans perhaps on introducing a badge for "superior skills in profanity, and courage behind the avatar."
NOTE: Before we move on, I am fully aware that every Hubber has the right to deny any comment, thus preventing it from being seen by anyone else. I'm also not suggesting that Hub Pages could possibly control the sending of offensive messages. However, when a seasoned Hubber like the author of the Hub above, elects to allow a message to be seen, he's also implicitly sending a message of his own. It's not hard to read between the lines and see what that implicit message is. Except, apparently, if you're a HP moderator, even in the face of subsequent specific requests to take action.
.
Anyway, here’s the insightful and engaging comment that qualifies as a reason to upgrade the writer’s Commenter Level. From 6 then to 7 now, close to HP's top of the class*.
.
You’ll note I’ve blurred the commenter’s name. Not because I’m intimidated. I just have a little more class, that’s all, than to want to give him any publicity whatsoever. But I have no need to protect him either. If you read the original article, the ongoing comments and responses are there to see.
Which is kind of my point. I formally flagged my concerns in a message to HP moderators, (and I believe I wasn't the only one) asking them to at least censure this individual. Their response was no response, (which matters not to me), but it seems, no action either. Apart from the accolade upgrade, of course.
Disappointed as I am at HP's lack of interest, I conducted a little research myself. According to our esteemed level 7 Hubber's hubtivity analysis, a significant number of his comments to other Hubbers are marked as 'unapproved' (ie; denied by the recipient). Could that be a clue? A pattern?
Whatever it is, I won't be taking it any further, I'm not on a witch hunt here, simply making a point. But it's also clearly irrelevant to HP. It’s been several weeks now, so I can only conclude they don’t care
Neither might you.
You might even right now be saying, "Who gives a toss?" ('Toss' / TOS: Terms Of Service, geddit? No? Never mind..)
But while I have your attention, here's the real point of this piece. The corollary to the site's apparently laissez faire attitude towards the kind of verbal diarrhoea that can apparently be thrown about at will. And accoladed.
When good, in fact excellent writers, contributing intelligent, useful and genuinely ‘insightful and engaging’ work to the site, are posting “I’ve Had It, I’m Outta Here.” farewell Hubs in despair of the HP moderating system, I continue to wonder at its whole focus.
It seems so unilateral, so 'one-size-fits-all', and in its tone, so clearly out of touch with well-established business communication protocols, as well as the tonality that Hub Pages own staff writers tell us is so important, that I can't believe it persists on a site whose genesis lies in championing written communication. That's the site's reason to be.
By way of example, I posted this a while ago, complaining, Why is Hub Pages Flushing My Work Down the Toilet?
Don’t get me wrong, I certainly haven’t got tickets on myself, I work hard to add value and interest to all my Hubs, but I’m a newbie, a pretender compared to a longtime and high worth contributor like SilverGenes, who recently posted the Hub pictured here, 'Hubbypages And I are Getting A Divorce'.
In the end, happily for all, SilverGenes didn’t go through with her divorce, and according to her profile, is in the process of reconciling her differences with HP. I also was able to achieve a satisfactory result. The comments each of these Hubs has drawn indicate the extent to which many Hubbers agree with the concerns. But they don't stop there. They also offer insightful suggestions for improving the system.
But Hub Pages doesn’t appear to be listening. In fact, the most recent proclamation (a blog posting) from our non-paying employers doesn’t acknowledge any shortcomings, other than the difficulty of dealing with the numbers, and congratulating themselves on managing those.
Sorry guys, wrong focus for mine. Quality, not quantity is where it should be at.
Anyway, end of rant. I’m not going to propose a solution here. All the input is already there for HP to see. Just wish they’d take notice, is all.
And maybe take a look at the message their unmoderated Commenter Level Accolade is really sending.
.
Finally, this Hub is not about beating up Hub Pages. It's only posted, (as are the many other Hubs and comments questioning the HP moderating system, I'm sure), because I value the site so much, value its accessibility, value the fact that as Hubbers, we can air and share our constructive criticism, and most of all value what it offers us as writers looking for a place to call home. I'd just like to see the HP moderators clean out the kind of crap I've dawn attention to here, which adds nothing, but definitely lowers the tone..
vote upvote downshareprintflag
- Useful (10)
- Funny (1)
- Awesome (7)
- Beautiful (1)
- Interesting (7)
Anything you'd like to say about the HP moderating system?Loading...
Yes! Here's the rub from HP ignorance that irks me to the point of not writing here much anymore. Too many 'bad' writers and comments are ignored, while HP staff intentionally pulls good hubs from appearing when they need to be more diligent about this rough kind of commenting from anyone. Popularity contest anyone? Yes, I think so, and so I Never recommend HP writing to my fellow writers on the outside of this place. Great hub, needed to be said! You said it so well.
Very well put, WriterOnline. When it comes to comment section, you are on your own. However, your point about raising their performance as a Level Commenter should be addressed. Perhaps, now that it is out in the open, the automated robotics will have to be tweaked to downgrade curse words. Sorry, I have missed out on your previous Hubs. I'll have to take a look when I'm more wide awake. Blessings. Debby
Hiya WOL. Very well put. Of course, HP doesn't care a whit for individual writers, except those close to home. It's just another sad little money game like so many everywhere today. It has to be understood and taken for just what it is to prevent disillusionment. As far as our redneck friend is concerned, he's not worth a couple of neurons firing to think of him. Thanks for your support in this matter on the behalf of all hubbers...Bob
I'm changing you name to, "wRight-On" line for the excellent way you informed the community about this type of activity.
I do understand the meaning of freedom of speech, but even at Twitter I can Block low life spammers, stalkers and unsavory types that do not add positivity to my life. Walk on the bright side. Blessings, Debby
Wonderful Wol, you are very right on how the site "protects" their own and how the scoring is jacked. I have seen some hubbers not budge from a high score and they don't engage at all, and on top of that some meaning most hubs they have written do not abide by the 60/40 rule. 60 original, 40 "other sources".
I really admire your courage and bold words on a subject that needs to be re-evaluated.
It was sicking to read that guy's comment, I am ashamed as an American for these types of ill manners, and of course the guy is from Texas, need to say much more?
Thanks again, You always have my support.
Thank you for bringing this issue forward! My hypothesis is that when rude remarks and profanity, stolen copyrighted yet entertaining material, or any other violation of the TOS serves to raise traffic, it is quietly ignored or even rewarded. It is interesting that there is no response when such hubs/comments are flagged. Perhaps that accounts for the recent HP change making writers fully responsible for their content. I wonder what will happen when the first major lawsuit is launched...? Yes, this is a great community of writers and that seems to be the major reason so many of us are still lurking in the vicinity. Well done, WOL!
p.s. Thank you for the glowing mention! It's important to keep things clean ;-)
The title drew me in! Couldn't imagine where you were going with this topic but as usual, you are very astute with your observations and speak the truth in a respectful yet thought-provoking and powerful way. Am glad you flagged and reported this abuse even though you didn't get any response.
Quite shocking that the offender's commenter level actually went up instead of down. I'll have to read Flora Breen Robison's article to see why that might have happened.
Voted up, useful, awesome and interesting.
Hi, WOL. Thanks for the link. I've flagged and tried to get people reprimanded for comments they have made before. But that never happens in the comments section of hubs. Why I don't know. The forums, yes. Comment capsules, no. I have my own hubs moderated so no one sees comments on them until I've read them. But I only made that switch when I started to get spam type comments on my hubs. Prior to that everyone could read comments on my hubs before I did when I was offline (eg. overnight when I'm sleeping.)
Hi PW,
Bobbi
Debby
diogenes
jenubouka
SilverGenes
HBN
and FBR
Thanks for reading, and especially for supporting, this minor tirade.
Debby, it’s not the curse words that have upset me. (I’m as guilty as the next person of using those). It’s the aggressive, arrogant, brutish way they’re arranged, that I’d have thought HP would have been astute enough to spot; and censure. But from FBR’s comment, it appears that it’s carte blanche for rudeness, and down to the recipient to deny. I must say I’d have treated that comment the way Diogenes did; and approved it; it conveys more about our ‘Level 7 legend in his own lunchtime’ than he’d be intelligent enough to grasp.
Seems that as far as professionalism and standards are concerned, we have to continue to judge HP on what they do, (or don’t do); not on what they say. TBH, I think there’s a clear parallel with the way commission-based sales organisations (insurance companies, financial planners, real estate agents etc) operate. No loyalty to agents (Hubbers), because once they’ve sold to their initial flush of friends and family, (written about things they already had in mind) and the pressure to perform gets applied, most fall by the wayside anyway. But it doesn’t matter to the organisation, because they get to financially benefit from (retain) those initial successes, and “Who gives a s#*t anyway?” (see what I mean Debby..), “because there’s an endless stream of new entrants (salespeople / Hubbers) who believe they have the skills to make the big money. And they’ll all add something to the whole, even as they just pass through.”
Anyway....must be time to think of a new Hub idea.
Your going to love this story, after receiving some 'interesting' notices from the HP moderators on content and linking practices concerning a few of my hubs, I tried to fix them, but alas couldn't to their satisfaction . . . so I just deleted them.
I then sent a scathing letter to them about censorship and in the process deleted all of the offending Hubs, thinking I'll show them. The next day one of my Hubs was nominated for one of their awards and got tons of readers and lot's of comments!
It ended up winning the award, but I don't think it is all that deserving!
Coincidence . . . Hardly, my Hubs with the most outlandish claims and controversial titles get the most readers, the ones that attempt to help others and provide insightful information don't.
When I practically insult my readers, those hubs goes through the roof in readership.
I tell most of my readers to leave comments and be critical, however intelligent writers should be able to do that without cussing.
Verbal banter can be fun as long as you learn not to take it personal!
The lesson for me is being a jerk can be very rewarding . . .
Interesting story, somethgblue. I don't have any problem with verbal banter, in fact engage in it frequently.
But there's no banter in that comment I'm complaining about, because real banter requires a degree of sophistication and wit. Otherwise it's just childish mouthing off. As in this case, where the intimidating threats, and the swearing simply reveal an inability to express an alternative point of view in a grown-up manner.
Agreed,
My point being the moderators, don't do any real moderating unless my definition of the word is different from the rest of the World's.
I have yet to deny a comment, however no one has used cuss words, which I really don't like. It is an interesting quandary and am not sure how I would react.
I read the offending hub and I'm absolutely floored. And now I'm curious: how does one flag a comment, on one's hubs or others?
Incidentally, @somethgblue - after some looking around, it looks to me like the staff doing the moderating is not the same as the staff handing out awards!
Yeah I'm not sure how that works as far as flagging goes, but what I can say for sure is that the hub I wrote on the Illegal Criminalization of Marijuana (11/27/11) was initially flagged by the first person who commented on it.
Since then I have had over 1,600 readers on that HP alone, so maybe getting flagged is a good thing. The Hub Living Frugal that won a Hub Nugget Award has gotten only 800 readers and is one of the first I published (over 3 months old), so it really makes no sense, to me!
Also a Fellow Hubber came on one of my Hubs and repeatedly cussed me today, so I guess I spoke to soon in that regard!
The other thing that makes me wonder is I came across one Hubber who has only one Hub and yet has been on HUb Pages for over a year, yet he leaves comments on other Hubbers articles that are often 3 or 4 times as long as his only Hub.
Are there Hubbers that are plants to instigate and cause mischief?
capricornrising, hi, I'm not sure if there is a recognised protocol. I flagged the Hub, then ticked the appropriate box from the range provided, then, in the explanation panel, praised the Hub, and made my complaint about the comment. Took no time at all. Synergy really, that's the same time the moderators must have taken to consider it.
somethgblue, hi, maybe cussing's catching on...?
Of course, it does have its place.. eg, I could say 'I'm very happy for you about those 1600 reads in just 3 weeks." Or, I could say "Unf***ingbelievable!"
Oh I see. We'd have to flag the hub itself, then explain. Well, maybe staff will get to your flag at some point. I've seen a few other offensive comments from that hubber on other hubs. My experience with the staff is that it takes them several days to get to any communication from us. Fingers crossed!
writeronline,
I'm curious, from my own experience 1600 is quite a lot of readers for one hub and of my 28 hubs one has 800 and another 300, and eight more with over a 100.
So what I'm asking is that considered a lot? I look at some authors and they have tens of thousands of readers so it is difficult to judge. Then I talk to other hubbers and they only get a trickle . . .
. . . anyway I'm beginning to suspect it is subject matter, decent writing, links and formatting, but I could be wrong!
capricornrising, hi, I don't think they're gonna do anything, it's been a month. FloraBreenRobison's comment above explains her similar experience.
somethgblue, I'm not much help I'm afraid. In fact I think you're already ahead of me.
I've been here 9 months, written on a reasonably wide range of topics, from practical writing stuff I know a bit about, to contentious stuff (like climate change) I hoped would draw readers *because* it's contentious, supposedly 'special interest/afficianado' stuff like urban myths and legends, to short stories, true and fictional. And some humour/fun stuff. 34 hubs in all.
It took me until two weeks ago to reach 10,000 total views, my biggest rating (term used loosely)page is at 800, the rest average about 350. A crap result so far. Sorry I can't be of more help.
Hey I read the carbon article that was kick ass, I think I'm pretty smart, I guess being a smartass doesn't count and I didn't know a lot of that!
Although I would have guessed around 2 percent on the first few questions.
10,000 thousand seems like a pretty big number for only thirty hubs! I'm closing in on thirty hubs and don't have even 5,000 so I think your doing well!
Although I vote more links and pictures as I have the attention span of Lemur, gnats are too small and your right they don't have internet access or all the back episodes of House, which is keeping me kind of busy nowadays (opened my Xmas presents early . . . don't tell anyone)
Hi WOL ... this is so frustrating. I have given up flagging hubs that are substandard as I don't think there can be enough moderators at HP to monitor them all. (Notice my generosity here).
Although perhaps I shouldn't have given up as once HP gets overloaded with crap it'll get such a bad name that Google will shove it to the bottom of all searches. (Like I know anything about how Google works!)
I admire you for your spirited defence of Diogenes. Of course I had to read the piece which caused such ill-tempered vitriol. Wha ...? How the hell did that guy get so riled about it?
Ah well, it gave Diogenes another follower ... and confirmed my thoughts about Texans.
Hi Angie, I still spend some time occasionally Hubhopping and flagging crap, but my understanding is that the switch to subdomains makes us independent of each other, and protected from one another's raw sewerage.
My real point in this piece isn't even the incongruity of HP moderating everything in sight, *except* for crass and witless comments that have been dutifully flagged by Hubbers who do give a sh*t about site standards.
It's the fact that their 'reward by volume, not value' approach to the Commenter Level accolade results in idjits like our Texan good ole boy being effectively praised for their 'eloquence'.
But yeah, diogenes doesn't need any help from me, but it's only right to show solidarity and respect to intelligent writers who actually have something worthwhile to say. Innit.
Bravo WOL ... thanks for clearing a few things up for me, it explains a lot. But quantity over quality is a worrying aspect. I suppose it is the only way they can do it though as the number of staff they would need to monitor each comment would be impossible. Plus such assessment would also be purely subjective. Still, it's a shame.
And in the vein of your last comment ... I respect you for taking a stand.
TBH Angie, I think the whole premise of the Commenter Level is flawed. It creates a sense of competition where none should exist, as well as causing unease amongst people ranked lower, and worst of all, rewards the wrong aspect. If I were HP, I'd ditch it.
Excellent work here! I have only been around a short time and, so far, have not seen the kind of thing you address, thank goodness. I suppose there are lowlifes everywhere though, whose lack of ability to express themselves coherently end up in a rant of the kind you exposed. I do hope moderators (whoever they are) will be more astute in the future.
xstatic, hi and welcome to HP. I wouldn't be holding my breath for the moderators to attend to this kind of stuff. But overall, the site is a pleasant place to hang out. I agree, there are 'idjits' everywhere. Sadly some of them can 'write'.
People like this should not be on this site. I am so sick of crap from people online. The unfortunate thing is that HP doesn't moderate comments unless you flag them so a person could be cutting you apart in the comments and they wouldn't know. The best thing to do would be to flag the profile. Luckily, once the edit timer runs out they can't change their comment so it's there as proof.
Emerald, hi, thanks for your comment. I think it's all a bit of a lost cause - and it's HP's business to moderate the site as they choose, of course. Just seems a strange area to ignore. This comment was flagged by several people, but no response ever came from the moderators.
PWalker281 Level 7 Commenter 5 months ago
The HubPages TOS says in part:
"You may not ... Harass, threaten or intimidate Authors or others who use the Service."
This gentleman's comment appears, at the very least, to be threatening and intimidating, i.e., "... come down to Texas and get a little violence from me."
I wonder why HubPages would ignore behavior that's in clear violation of their own TOS. Do authors need to complain first before HP takes action? I don't see why they should. I bet if the author had three links to the same website in a hub, they'd be on his behind in 2 seconds flat!
Good for you for bringing this kind of behavior to, if not HubPages attention, to ours, WO. Rated up and useful.